[E252] Relational Brand Building, with Jarrett Thomas (Part 2)

Jason: Welcome back to the show. My name again is Jason Cutter. So glad that you're here. You are joining in part two of my conversation with Jarrett Thomas from iPollRank. He is an amazing seller, focuses on relationships. If you didn't hear it, make sure to tune into part one, subscribe to the show. Of course, iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, Spotify. You can go to the CutterConsultingGroup. com site and get every episode there as well. Get the episodes each day, share them with friends, share them with family, anybody who's in sales. Let's get this message out. Conversations like this are so valuable to show people who are in sales or in leadership that relationships will win and can win and do the trick for being successful. So please share this and that's it. Here we go. Part two. Enjoy. Jarrett: And that is one of the most. Important things because you could cross off all the boxes and you could be a jerk. And I'm still gonna go, I'm gonna buy from Charlie now, . You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's like, unless you have a really solid product, if he's like a SaaS platform and your product is by far top tier, then they're gonna come to you. Jason: And when that happens, then essentially you're not a sales person, you're just an order taker like they would've bought from you anyway. As long as you're not too big of a jerk or an ass, they would have bought from you anyway because they want it. Maybe you're the hot SaaS platform of the month, right? That people just are all like jumping on. They might as well just order it online. They did the demo because they had to because you literally wouldn't let them put a credit card in. On the website, right? Those people don't take any skill to sell to exactly. Jarrett: So for the people in that scenario, and many of us aren't part is huge. So don't just sell to your prospects. Nobody wants to be sold. They want to be told they want to partner. They want somebody who's going to help them feel good. Make them feel good about the decision because it could be their first time even going through the buying process. That's their credibility. So you have some empathy towards that and really have a true understanding of what that problem is. And you could really solve it. Jason: So here's what I love about this. I'm going to get it from you and then I'm going to put it in the show notes. And I think that's an important framework for those B2B salespeople that are listening in this process. But what I love and what I'm fascinated by is how clearly those six things. Apply also if you're selling direct to consumers. So my career before I became a consultant and a trainer is that it was always direct to consumer. So it was helping people mostly over the phone individuals. Now I work with a lot of different businesses and so I've used that in the same way. But what's fascinating is it's the same thing. There's so many people who blow deals, let's say selling to the husband and. If he's not the champion, when he talks to his wife later on tonight, she is going to destroy him and that sale. And you're going to have an angry voicemail. When you come back in the office tomorrow, I seen it happen so many times, but all of those things, right? Like it might sound businessy, right? The metrics and all of those parts, but it applies to any sale to anybody. Jarrett: If you don't have those six things down, how can you get a deal? You don't know who's going to buy Jason: and how can you keep the deal, right? You might get the deal, but you won't be able to keep it. Jarrett: Exactly. So when you come back and it's also helps you elevate it and warp the deal, right? Expedite it, understand those problems. You come back on call number two, you got all your boxes checked. Now you listened, you look like a champion, right? Now, if you don't have those checks, you're like, Oh, doesn't Johnny need to be in now? This is our third call. And you haven't even included Johnny, who is the decision maker, right? That's a problem. People want to get to it your way. That could be a time waster. Nobody wants their time wasted on a phone call. Nobody wants the sales guy. They're just pitching features and Hey, look at this and that. And I don't care what your problem is. Cause this is what I saw. Nobody cares. Jason: No, and I don't do a lot of sales calls. I see a lot of sales reps, but the way I see that's the most obvious is when, at least when it was legal, going to trade shows and conferences and you walk up to a booth and the dude's just given the brochure monologue for five minutes about how great it is, doesn't even know if it applies to me or not, or if I care, just so on autopilot with the features. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Jarrett: Yeah. It used to be that guy too, though. So I can't lie. Whoever gets the most ridiculous thing too. I'll share with you one job I was working with. So we were doing events, and it was the contest of how to, whoever gets the most business cards wins. You get a bottle of alcohol or something like that. And I'm sitting there like, they also, if they give their card, they have a chance to win a GoPro. So I'm like, hold on, we're gonna give them a GoPro. We're just getting a business card. This business card says absolutely nothing, right? But I was trying to suggest something like, and this is for people and events, I'm gonna give this free advice. So, you guys are doing an event, create interactive content. Have the big screen and all that, but how do you increase engagement at your booth, right? Have people answer questions, take a quiz, have them play a game. Something that doesn't feel salesy per se, but at the same time, the benefit of that interactive content is you collect the data. I know Jason pressed X, Y, When it came to this stage, when he needed a new technology, Jason is focused on SEO because he pressed Y. So now I have your data and your CRM. So when I call you Jason, Hey Jason, remember you, we was at the booth together. We, yeah, man, we had a good time and I'm going, yeah. I remember you said you needed some help with SEO specifically. And I have some ideas for you that I'd love to share with you. You know what I mean? And now we're having a conversation. As opposed to, hey, I'm Jared, please talk to me, please. The thing on the phone is a meeting. Right. You have to get the ask. And that's even a great thing that we could even talk about too, is when to make the ask and cold call. Because I love that aspect of it. Have you been a cold caller or? Jason: I have done it. What's interesting, I have managed it way more than I have done it. I have actually led teams doing it way more often, like I've only done it for a brief period and I'll tell you most of my cold calling is as a result of needing to build a cold call SDR or telemarketing team and then literally sitting there with them and okay, let's do this together. Let me show you how it should work. It's just a conversation and then that's it. But real quick, before we get on the cold calling thing, I think the issue that happens with that trade show booth with the collecting cards is the classic that happens in a lot of organizations with mismanagement, which is focusing on the wrong metrics, like focusing on. It's an activity. Oh, if you get enough cards, it should matter, right? If you make enough phone calls today, it should matter. So make your a hundred phone calls. It's a numbers game, knock on a hundred doors. It's a numbers game, right? Who cares what you're saying? Who cares how terrible you are? Just do it a hundred times and you should win. But that's not always the case. I could go out there and shoot a hundred free throws right now in the same terrible way that I always shoot them and it won't matter. Yes. Two might go in, but it doesn't mean I'm going to get better. Doesn't mean I'm getting into the NBA and getting paid. One thing I've seen is that sales people worry about only being able to win if they use manipulation tricks, tactics, and hard closes. So they end up struggling to close deals, make their quota or earn the kind of money that they want to make. If this sounds like your current situation or maybe you want to make more money in sales without feeling like you're selling, then my upcoming book called selling with authentic persuasion will help in it. I'm going to take you on a journey to transform from order taker to quota breaker. If you're ready to become an authentic persuader, crush your goals and create success in your sales career, then go to jasoncutter. com. Again, that's jasoncutter. com and pre order the book today. Great analogy. Jarrett: That's so true, man. But a lot of people do that. A lot of brands do that. They focus on the wrong metrics. Like me personally, it took me about eight years to figure that. I was the, I prided myself on being the hustler, being the guy that was going to make 105 downs. If you're making 102, I'm going to make 105. If you stay at a six, I'm going to stay at a 610. See what's going on. Jason: And some of that is valuable, right? Some of that's necessary to just hustle, especially when you're figuring it out. Jarrett: Absolutely. So that's what I was. I was a guy that would just throw stuff at the wall, see what sticks. And I'm going to have those 200 calls because it's all practice. I'm just figuring it out. I would love when somebody hang up on me and I'm figuring out what could I've said differently. Now the next call, I know what to say with you. And then when you do have that meeting, when you do make the hundred call and you finally get the meeting, there's no better feeling than that. But for me now, as a person who's in it 10, 11 years, I focus more so on the personal brand. It's like, why do I need to make 100 calls when I could possibly have 100 people come to me? And how do I do that? It's by breaking the sales barrier and just being a human. Being a genuine good person that gives information for free, shares content, just tells you what I'm thinking. Maybe I had a bad day and I just shared it with somebody and you had the same experience, right? And now you're dealing with me and now we have a personal connection. Oh, and you just happen to be the digital marketing manager at Sony or something. Yeah. And it happens like that, man. So that's something that I definitely would encourage all salespeople to do, right? Those things are still needed within the sales process. Yes, it is good to make a hundred calls. Yes, it is the good to send out your 75 emails, but what are you doing to create an inbound pipeline for yourself? How do you work smarter, not harder? And if you're not using technology and using those social media platforms to get your name out there, if you're not doing videos and editing them properly and staying in front of people, how do you stay top of mind today? A cold call is not going to do it in this day and age. I feel like you may get lucky, but wouldn't it feel better if you had that digital marketing manager of Sony just going to your DM and LinkedIn and say, Hey, Jared, I would love to talk. Tell me when you're ready. No better feeling than that. Jason: And that's the transition you always want to focus on. No one starts there. You got to start with those calls. But I think the key is, and you said this, but you said it really quick, is that you made the call. Somebody hung up on you or said no. You analyzed it. You looked at why did that happen? What can I do differently next time? And then you went in and you tried something different. Here's the key though, and this is for people listening, if you're new to sales especially, is one of the things I see is that somebody makes a call. Get hung up on that. Didn't work. Let me try option B. They try option B in one call. That doesn't work. Let me try option C. Let me just keep mixing it up. And so they make 100 calls in 100 different ways. Three of them work, and they literally have no idea what the recipe was that made that cake because they don't even know what they measured and put in there. And then all of a sudden it works. So you want to make little changes. You want to analyze and figure it out a bit by bit, like running an experiment or trying to bake something. Jarrett: But it's also something to it. Sales is a, what I usually, I compare it to singing, is like you could teach it, but it's also a fine line that some people just have it, right? And what it is, is analyzing the other person on the phone and knowing what kind of character that person is and then building off of it. That's a skill that it can't be taught. If you have the gift of gab, if you're just a genuine person, if you really just can talk and connect with people, then you're gonna be, have a leg up on somebody, right? I know people that are good sales people, but then they overthink. They overthink themselves how to deal. Jason: That was me. I just pointed to myself for anyone who's not watching the video. I just pointed to myself. That is one of the biggest things I did very early on in my sales career, which is in residential mortgages. Oh, man, this is the rule I used to break all the time that I teach people not to do is I used to treat everyone like I like to be treated. So I used to sell to people like I wanted to be sold to, which was with lots of data and facts and figures and no pressure and lots of options and lots of choice so that I could make that because I'm an analytical guy by default. And so I used to give people like a spreadsheet with 10 different options and say, here we go. And everyone would shut down, go into analysis paralysis and run away. I'd never hear from him again. So. You also got to be careful with that, right? Jarrett: Absolutely. But then less is more. And you can add as you grow. Those are the same way, right? When I first started, I was throwing decks at people. I was throwing all types of whatever you need, every testimonial, here you go. Jason: And that's what I tell people all the time. People that I work with, they'll say, okay, I need a new spreadsheet. I need a deck. What email templates can I send out? I'm like. Those are important to some people, some of the time, but not your standard go to every time I've got to send this long email with this PowerPoint and with these testimonials and Kate, no, it should be specific if they ask for it and that's what you think is necessary. Otherwise, talk them out of that because PowerPoint decks and testimonials don't close deals, man, like the conversation, the relationship, your medic framework. That's what does it. Jarrett: That's what gets it, man. I've never closed a deal from a deck. Jason: Never just send out. That's because you're not sending out enough, man. Send out 200 decks a day and you will. Oh man. Jarrett: Wish I had the capacity, man. Let's go back to what you were saying about the email. So for all the sellers out there, after every single call, what I do is I just recap every single thing they do. So every single thing we spoke about, right? So the pleasantries, thank you for your time. It was a pleasure connecting with you as promised. I sent you our deck, maybe with some highlights and. These are some of the things we highlighted today and we spoke about X, Y, and Z. And these are the next steps that we agreed upon. So if you told me we're going to connect next week, we said we're going to connect July 17th at two o'clock. Please confirm or matter of fact, already sent you the invitation because I already figured that out while we was on the phone. Cause I don't want to lose you. So I made you pick up your calendar and pull up your calendar and give me a time. And then you just make them to agree to everything, right? You want to be so buttoned up in that email that it's like, this guy gets me. So make sure you highlight the key things. You don't need to send a deck with a case study. As long as the person on the other line knows that you get what they're doing. And you get their business, you get their problem. That's the main thing. Jason: It doesn't matter. And what I see a lot too is that sales people are in this mode where they think that you have to do the demo, you have to do the screen share, you have to walk through that stuff. There's a percentage of buyers that don't need it. Right. They need a conversation. They want to know how it applies to them, but they don't need to see under the hood of how it all works. Right. They're totally cool. Just tell me how you're going to solve my problems. And then we'll go from there. Jarrett: That's it. I've been in SAS for three years and I've gotten deals with no demo. It's possible to understand what it is. I understand what the problem is and I'm speaking the features to you. Maybe if you're a person who can be in it every day to day You might want to see what the ui looks like or something like that if you're comfortable with it But besides that i'm not going through features. I'm not going through a long presentation. It's hey Remember what I told you we spoke on the phone. This is how you do it Jason: All right, that's it for part two of the conversation. Like I said in the beginning make sure to subscribe And if you can, if you're on iTunes, leave a rating, leave a review. It means a lot, goes a long way, takes 30 seconds for you to go on there and say something amazing and awesome about the show so that other people can find it and hopefully make this shift in the way that sales is done. As always, keep in mind, everything in life is sales. People remember the experience you gave them.