[E189] From Paramedic to Sales Leader with Chris Cebollero – Part 2 of 4

Jason: Welcome back to the sales experience podcast. Welcome to part two of my conversation with Chris Cebollero. Please make sure if you haven’t already to subscribe to the podcast wherever you found this at iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, it’s on SoundCloud. You can find on Google play. You can also go to the cutterconsultinggroup.com website. You can find the podcast, you can find all the links to where to subscribe and download, as well as the transcripts. And of course you can find Chris’s links there. But here we go. Part two, enjoy. 

Chris: You see a lot of different faces on people. You see smiles, you see scowls, you’ll see frowns. Who got that bad diagnosis, right? Who just lost a friend whose baby is in the ICU and we go ahead and pass judgment on people to say, well, they look pretty mean, or Oh my God, they’re not friendly at all. It’s the same thing with the people that we come in contact with. We all have something going on in our days. And just to add a little bit of cheer, a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of motivation, what does it really hurt?

Jason: Yeah. Well and, and it’s two sides, right? So I think that’s important because when you’re in a hospital you can just assume that nobody is there for really good reasons. And so something is going on, right? Like I’ve been in enough waiting rooms where you could just look around and you can just imagine the story. And I’ve also overheard people come in and then share stories, but then you go out into the real world and you’re at the grocery store or you’re driving in traffic or you’re at the mall and somebody does something rude or cuts you off or says something. Right? It’s also understanding like everyone’s going through something and it’s not personal and to give, you know, somewhat empathetic. And then if you can try to add value in some way,

Chris: I think that that’s the ultimate test of emotional intelligence as well when you get into the world, right? And people doing those things that are just selfish. You know, people are doing the things that are just uh, you know, irritating the cutting you off or the, you know, whatever it is or not holding the door. And that’s the ultimate test. Why is it bugging you? Why, why do you care about it, you know, that doesn’t affect you. I mean, if people don’t want to extend courtesy, if people want to cut you off, if people want to be rude when they talk to you, how do you deal with it? And to me that’s the ultimate, one of the things that I did a long time ago when I was in the workforce and was a leader, I used to take my EMT or paramedic new employees to breakfast or lunch and I would get there early and I would intentionally asked the waitress to mess up their order just to see how they would interact with the waitress. You want to see when they get the character of somebody, watch how they interact with waitstaff. Watch, see if they look at them at their eyes, see if they ask what their name is. See if they are showing respect and uh, that’s a good quality. That’s a good character measure as to how they treat their waitstaff.

Jason: I forget who it was, but I had read somewhere else that somebody did that as one of their interview steps is before even hiring somebody doing that, the restaurant scenario with the screwed up order and then just testing to see how’s that person, how did they respond? Right.

Chris: I think I got that from there was an article or something I read, but it a, it was a long time ago. But you know, again, I think that we have to be able, you know, when we do interviews and we try to figure out who we’re going to invite into our organization to help us be successful. And I think that we forget that we invite these people into our organization to help us be successful. When I come and sit in front of you, I’m putting on the clean shirt I’m putting on, I’m giving you the very best that I got, but I’m hiding some of those character flaws that I may have. Yeah. It’s almost a, and then, you know, you give me references that people who are going to say that I’m the greatest in the world, right? I’m of course I want to hear the people that are going to say, you know that you’re horrible but you’ve got good character and you’re going to be able to fix it because now I’ve gotta be able to take you and your skills.

Chris: And when you come into my organization, I’ve got to be able to take you from point A to point B to make my organization successful. But we’ve got to get to the true character of people. And I think that’s sometimes that’s a challenge. I mean, you know, when you’re in the business world yourself, I mean, how do you help those, you know, those people find those right employees? Cause you got to think about it. You gotta think about retention, you gotta think about engagement, you gotta think about satisfaction. And we need to know these people intimately, professionally, intimately, so we can help guide them and motivate them. And I think we forget that. You know, you want to make sure that you have good recruitment and med tech and retention. It comes down to engagement and satisfaction. And you’re gonna find that you’re going to be great at it. But I’m babbling a little bit. I think it comes down to the character of those people.

Jason: Well, and what I’ve found is when recruiting or helping companies with their recruiting is what I have done to be successful in that is to put people through the appropriate amount of hoops and tests relative to what the job is. I mean, is it a short sales cycle? Isn’t a long sales cycle. It’s a long sales cycle. There’s going to be a bunch of hoops that’s going to be a long process. Is it a sales process that involves lots of calling and outreach and managing a pipeline and hearing NO or being delayed? If so, I’m going to delay people or just ignore them and then make them see who comes back and says, Hey, it’s Friday. You said you were going to call me by Friday. I haven’t heard from you. You know, are you still interested in me? And can we move forward, right?

Jason: Cause that person, however, like you said, everyone puts on the nice shirt and the nice smile and gets themselves all good and perfect on the outside. But given enough opportunity in the interview process, you will see because people are who they are and they can only hide it and pretend so long. So you’ll see it. Do they talk a lot or do they listen a lot? Do they ask questions? Are they asking no questions. And so depending on what you need from your sales role, you can see that and you just put them through. Do you need them to memorize scripts? I’ve also had it where in the interview process, in between interviews, I said, here, take this one page script, memorize it, call me back when you’re ready, we’ll schedule the next one. That’s totally up to you whenever, however long it takes for you to memorize it, cause some people, I’ve had people literally go out in the car, memorize it, come back 30 minutes later and then nail it. I’ve had other people take a week because like me, they have not as great as memorizing. But if it takes memorizing scripts, see if they can memorize it, see if they have the desire and the work ethic and the commitment to getting it done.

Chris: And I think that comes down to how much want the opportunity. And that’s really what it comes down to is success doesn’t just poke you on the shoulder and say, Hey, I’m success Jason. I’m here. I’m going to create success. Success creates wealth. And we’ve got to be able to develop those opportunities. And when I sit with you and you impress me with that interview to say, you know what? This is a company that I want to work for. I’m going to go out in the car and take 30 minutes to nail the script. If I take a week to do it, is that somebody who I’m going to consider for that position? And I think our job, you know, when we think about, you know, bringing people into our organization to help us be successful, I think we got it all wrong because we hire people.

Chris: And they have a certain amount of skill and a certain amount of experience. And you know, we say, you know what, let’s go ahead and partner and let’s work together. And then we bring them into the organization. We say, here’s your desk. Sit here. Don’t start any trouble. Let me know if you have any problems. But I think that that’s when the organizational socialization really starts in developing them into the culture of the organization. We’ve got to be able to invest in their professional development. So they’re now here with this level of skill when they come in. But we want them to have this level of skill when they’re working with us and then eventually continue to grow. And I think as leaders in an organization, we forget that sometimes just because somebody has a resume that you know, the size of their arm doesn’t necessarily mean they’re at the pinnacle of their career.

Chris: And my job as a leader in that organization is to get the very best out of you and getting the very best out of you isn’t you being stagnant. It’s you creating to grow. There’s a lot of salespeople out there that do a lot of great work and they invest in those people that they’re trying to engage with, but what are they doing to invest in themselves to become better and bring themselves to the next level so they’re able to bring the client and customer to the next level as well. I think that’s a missing component, Jason.

Jason: It’s interesting how sales as a profession, air quotes, theoretically a profession does not have that same level of internal and external work ethic during the Workday, outside of the Workday as viewed as this thing. Now, there are some, obviously people who are at the top of their game treat it like a profession. They’re doing the research, they’re going to conferences, they’re going to seminars, they’re reading books, they’re listening to audio, and they’re trying to improve themselves and their skills and understanding all different things, right? Maybe they sell machinery, but they’re studying behavior and psychology and active listing, like you’re talking about, leadership and so there’s a lot of it where people just aren’t doing it right? If you’re a professional athlete and you’re wanting to play and be paid professionally to play a sport, you know, it’s not just the one hour, two hour, three hour on the field or on the court, right? That’s 10% of your life in a given week. And so, you know, there’s so much more that goes into it and studying and watching tape, right. As I say, like of your interactions, listening to recordings or, or you know, having someone sit in your meetings and just people don’t, they don’t put in that extra effort to make it a profession and treat it like such. And then the reflection is on the community. The world as a whole is people just view sales people as less than or just out for their own interests instead of a professional.

Chris: Yeah, I think you’re right. I love how you put that into a little bit of a, you know, put a bow on that. You know, Joe Frazier has the great quote that says, you know, champions aren’t, aren’t crowned in the ring. That’s just where they’re recognized. And you feed yourself at four o’clock in the morning during the run. That’s where the championship is being made. And think about that from our standpoint of our own professional development. When we set goals for ourselves, it’s not reaching the goal. That’s the highlight for us. It’s the journey that we take in reaching the goal. That’s the growth and development that reaching the goal is just the extra gravy in that process. But I think that we’ve got to be able to make certain that we don’t cheat ourselves in that process. You know, I’ll tell you a story and you know, you talk about sales and how long the process is.

Chris: I don’t know that there’s any longer process of sales than being in the medical field. I mean, because you walk into somebody’s office with a brand new defibrillator that costs $30,000 and now I’ve got to outfit 50 ambulances with a $30,000 piece of equipment. I’m not buying that in a month. No, it’s going to take me a year to 18 months to get that approved and budgeted and finally on those ambulances. So there was one time we were getting ready to change. I was in Fort worth, Texas and there was a uh, the, you know, I put the RFP out that we were going to look for some defibrillators and we had the different vendors come in and there was, uh, I was having, I needed some leadership training that I didn’t have time to do and one of the vendors for the Phillips organization said, well, would you mind if I came in and talked about it?

Chris: This is what my reference resume is when it comes to leadership and I just missed doing it. You know, can I put on a little class for you? Absolutely. How cool is that? Happy to do it. He did a great job, you know, but it was above and beyond what he was trying to do. They have to know, like, and trust you. I had a problem. He gave me a solution that had nothing to do with the Phillips monitor. And I think that, you know, being able to be that resource as we go back to what we were talking about before. I mean, how great was that for him to say, let me teach you guys some stuff that I enjoy as well

Jason: And that’s where all the studying and the prep and everything in your life up to that moment then allows you. Then when the opportunity comes up in the game, you can make that play, right? Like if we’re talking about sports, it’s like you said, it’s not what’s in the ring or on the field. It’s all the prep that goes into that moment. Same thing with sales. It’s not, you know, having that conversation and doing well, it’s all the prep that goes into it so that you can listen and then respond appropriately and move that conversation forward without even thinking about it. Right? With just being on autopilot. 

Jason: Alright. That’s it for my conversation with Chris Cebollero. Again, remember you can go to cutterconsultinggroup.com you can find the transcript, Chris’s links, and I’ll leave you like I always do as always, keep in mind that everything in life is sales. People remember the experience you gave them.