[E261] Relationship Building, with Matt Ward (Part 2)

Jason: Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Matt Ward. So we're going to pick up where we left off talking about referrals, talking about relationships, talking about his experience about the proper way to do it and what's involved with that. Make sure you take a lot of notes. And again, sometimes people think that they're not in the business of getting referrals or they don't need more referrals or they can't get more referrals. And so this topic is very valuable for everybody. In sales. So make sure to check these out. I'll see you at the end message. Matt: People send Voxer messages to people send on your phone. You can send voice messages, use them LinkedIn, right? Send video messages to people, stay in touch with people. You won't ever have to ask for another referral in your entire life. I don't works for me Jason: and to clarify what's interesting because I'm hearing you talk because I've seen those situations It's taught a lot and let's say financial services insurance Maybe even auto we're at the end of the transaction what you're referring to is Hey now that we're done right now that you've signed up for I'm gonna sell you life insurance Who do you know slide the piece of paper across and say give me three names of people who might also be interested? What about the setting it up and then asking for it later, which would be, Hey, if this goes well, and if we work together, I would like to get people who, later down the road, right? Let's first build this. And if I do what I say, I'm going to do. So what you're saying is. Matt: Jason, we're going to work together, and if everything goes really well, would it make sense for you to refer people so I don't have to go out on the street side with a cardboard sign that says, we'll work for food? Pretty much, yeah. That's what I'm hearing. Instead, let's let our work speak for itself. Let's be so great at what we do. The number one pillar in my four pillar strategy is over delivery. Not under promised and over delivered, just over delivered. Give more than your client is always expecting. That's more touch points, that's quicker turnaround, that's a better product, a better service. That's what it is. If you give referrals, you're gonna get referrals. If you surprise people, if you listen to people, if you do non self serving acts, the four pillars are over delivery, listening, surprise, and non self serving acts. If you do those four things in some sort of conjunction with not just your clients, But all your contacts, you're going to get business. See, most people are doing is they're setting this up Hey, if I deliver for you, first of all, that's what they expect that they're paying you to do that. So now we're tying something else in that says, okay, you give me five grand for this. I'll use website as an example, because I used to own a digital agency for 16 years and I sold it in 2018. So somebody comes in here, but Jason comes to the table, wants a new website for his sales consulting business. Okay, Jason, it's going to be 5, 000. Okay, that's great. And you start to write the check. And I go, Oh, before you do that, Jason, if I do a really good job on this, would you refer me? So that makes no sense to me because there's an inherent understanding that I will do an amazing job for you. Just for you writing that check. It's what you expect because now I'm just saying, Oh, by the way, if you say no, I'm not going to do an amazing job. What is built into that conversation that other people can glean out of it on the opposite side of the conversation. And by the way, remember what I said earlier, clients were for one to three people over a lifetime. When is the last time I'm not saying we haven't done this. But let's think about real estate, for instance, right? The average person buys a new home every seven years. That's the rough numbers. When is the last time you referred someone to a real estate agent while they bought a house? Pretty rare. I had a guy and I referred like seven people to him over the course of 10 or 12 years, okay? It's incredibly rare. And by the way, before I ever, I wasn't even a client when I was referring. I was in a networking group. I knew the guy from the networking group. And so most people don't refer other home buyers and other home sellers to agents. It just doesn't work. The majority of all agents, they start off getting referrals from their friends and family. They say, Hey, I know so and so who's in the business. And then they evolve into getting them from centers of influence. So CPAs, legal. Real estate attorneys, mortgage professionals, because they're starting to give those referrals out. And that's the reciprocity effect that kicks in when you start to do the work that you do and you say, okay. Let's get this home inspector in here to inspect the home. Now the home inspector knows who you are. You just built the no part of no like trust and care about. And so now you have to build the light trust and care about peace. And that takes time. Too often people want to shortcut the system and just ask for referrals. And it just doesn't work. Jason: One thing I've seen is that sales people worry about only being able to win if they use manipulation tricks, tactics, and hard closes. So they end up struggling to close deals, make their quota. Or earn the kind of money that they want to make. If this sounds like your current situation, or maybe you want to make more money in sales without feeling like you're selling, then my upcoming book called Selling with Authentic Persuasion will help. In it, I'm going to take you on a journey to transform from order taker to quota breaker. If you're ready to become an authentic persuader, crush your goals and create success in your sales career, then go to jasoncutter. com. Again, that's jasoncutter. com and pre order the book today. Yeah, I completely agree. And the part that I always think about and try to help people realize, especially companies where let's say they have a sales team and the sales team is not generating referrals, not focusing on referrals and there's the asking side. And then there's just the being present and the followup, right? Not the direct. Hardcore referral ask like you're talking about, but also just like the follow up and the touch points and after the transaction and just nurturing that relationship ongoing. When being present, most people are just so short term, like most salespeople that I have experienced, they need to eat today. The challenge with a referral is it's like a farming, right? It's planting a seed, nurturing it, watering it, protecting it from pests and harm, and then eating somewhere down the road, right? You don't plant a seed in spring and then eat the next day, right? That's not how it works. And so salespeople just give up. They just say, I can't wait for referrals. So either got to go hard on referral asking, and just force it or just ignore referrals and just keep trying to hunt each day, right? Matt: And so let's use that example, right? So first of all, whose fault is that? It's not anybody else's fault except the salesperson's fault. Now, when I talk to people who work not for themselves, but for a company, the company will often say you need to do X, Y, Z as part of your sales task per day. And my response to them is you can't get inspired. So do what they tell you to do. And after work and on weekends, do what I tell you to do. And within three years, you'll never have to do what they tell you to do every day. So yes, it does take farming. We do have to plant seeds. We have to water it. We have to grow it. But then let's go with the other analogy of the hunting. So you're going to go out hunting. Let's use the example. Hunting deer or a moose. First of all, you can't walk out your front door and hunt a moose. Jason: Most people can't, I know. Matt: Yeah, it doesn't walk across your front yard, right? And so you have to first go where the moose, where you think the moose is. Then you have to wait for the moose to come along. And what happens is you try to position yourself in the right windage, with the right hunting gun or whatever, on the trail that they're going to eat off of and stuff like that. And then at that point, you might have a punt. But who's doing all that work? The salesperson is. So it's not like this isn't work. In fact, I always tell people networking is a big part of referrals. And guess what? Guess what? Word is in the middle of work, right? It takes work and you just have to keep doing it and keep building it up. I've been doing this so long, Jason, it's just inherent in my soul. And I just never look at getting the sale. I never asked for the sale and I'm always looking at opportunities on how to connect people with other people. I'm the connector. And so I relish that opportunity. People call me. I got a text message one time from somebody in Chicago saying, do you know an attorney in Maryland that can help me set up an LLC? And I was like, you bet I do. And I did, and I'm in Boston. It's all about those relationships that you just keep building over time. And you nurture them, you stay in touch. If marketing as a whole takes, I don't know, it depends on the industry, right? 13 touches, 26 touches, 85 touches, whatever the number is. Why do we think that relationships don't take that many touch points, right? And I've been telling you a story for a long time now about one of my clients. And One of my clients came on board after about 14 touches. Interestingly enough, they were in networking groups, they were in one to one calls, learning more about them, they were in emails, Facebook messages, things like that, and took 14 or so touch points. We shouldn't try to shortcut the system. When you do that, Jason: That's it for another episode of the Sales Experience Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you find yourself on iTunes, can you leave the show a rating and a review? It helps other salespeople and sales leaders find the show. And please subscribe to the show and share episodes you find valuable with anyone you know in sales. Help me on my mission of changing the way sales is done. And if you're ready to work together, go to jasoncutter. com. Again, that's jasoncutter. com. To find out how I can help you or your company create scalable sales success. I will see you on the next sales experience podcast episode, and keep in mind that everything in life is sales and people will remember the experience you gave them.