[E262] Relationship Building, with Matt Ward (Part 3)

Jason: Welcome back to another episode of the sales experience podcast. Welcome to part three of my conversation with Matt Ward. If you like what he's talking about, you want to check out his information. You're in a business where you could use more referrals. I definitely suggest what he's doing as a framework that can help you. So make sure to go to Matt ward speaks. com. You can also find his other links on there. You can go to the cutter consulting group website, find the show notes, yada, yada, yada. I say the same thing all the time, but it's so important in case you're just catching this episode as the only one. Make sure to check out Matt, check out the CCG website. Here you go, part three. Matt: Interestingly enough, they were in networking groups. They were in one to one calls, learning more about them. They were in emails, Facebook messages, things like that. And took 14 or so touch points. We shouldn't try to shortcut the system. When you do that, you short it out. Jason: Well, and What I have seen is people get lucky sometimes, and the timing is just right, and a referral happens quick, and then that resets the expectation. Right? Which is, wow, that was easy. Referral should come quicker. How do I replicate that? And there's always times where you just get lucky. There's always deals that just fall in your lap. The people who you said, like, know and trust you, and they care, and they're ready. And, you know, a referral meaning somebody who's just literally ready to buy, versus a lead, versus anything else. And sometimes those lucky things, right? It's like when you're gambling for the first time and playing poker and you win and you really shouldn't have, and then you think, wow, I'm amazing. I should do this all the time. Right. Or in golf, another analogy I know is it's always that one good shot. That you have during any round that makes you feel like, Hey, this is fun. I should keep doing this. Matt: Yeah, , right? It's not really that fun, right? Jason: No, hopefully not. It's not. You didn't remember the other, if you're me, 140 Matt: shots. I played uh, blackjack. I played in blackjack tournament, on a carnival cruise many, many moons ago, and I won the entire tournament. Jason: Did you quit your job and go pro? What'd you do? Matt: So I won like $600 plus a little carnival cruise lines trophy that said blackjack tournament winner, right? I go down to the casino the next day, and I'm sitting there playing. I literally was splitting tens. And people at the table are like, What are you doing? I'm like, Are you kidding me? I won the tournament yesterday. I'm a champ. Here's my trophy. Jason: You have it like right in front of you. Matt: Well, I put it around a gold chain around my neck. There you go. That's exactly what you're talking about is sometimes we fall into dumb luck and we don't know what we don't know. And so then finally, after a bunch of people left that table, It was a guy from Illinois. I'll never forget it. He's from Illinois, young guy. And he said to me, Do you know why everybody just left the table? And I said, they don't like the way Jason: I'm playing. He's like, because I'm a champ. Matt: The way you're playing is messing up the hands for everybody else. And I'm saying, well, I don't get that. And he said, well, are you open to learning about it? And I said, yeah. And he sat there for like four hours and showed me how to play blackjack. And I had no idea. I just was like, oh, it's 21. If I split tens and I get two aces, I'd double up big time. And I had no concept of the odds or any of the other stuff, the people, I thought I was playing just with the dealer. And I was very short sighted, I was very focused on just one thing. And what was that one thing, Jason? Money. Yourself. Jason: And money. Matt: I was focused on money. And I see it all the time in this world of business. When people are focused on money, they're not focused on helping. And when they're not focused on helping, they're not caring. Some of the best clients and referrals you will ever get. Or when you turn away someone else because you helped them go somewhere else. And then they never forget that. Hey look, you're not a good fit for me here, or I think you'd be better over here, or try this company over here. And then they start immediately referring you because they find that you are ethical. I moved into this house that I'm living in now, and about three weeks after I moved in, I couldn't get in the front door. I was like, what is wrong? with my key. And the lock wouldn't work. So I went in through the garage and I started calling locksmiths. And they were like, okay, you have three days out, a week out. I called another locksmith and he said, Hey, I can get out there tomorrow. But before I do that, why don't you spray some WD 40 inside the lock? I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah. Give that a shot. I sprayed WD 40. No problem. The tumblers are moving now. Now like every twice a year, I'll put WD 40 in the locks. I had no idea you had to do that. Guess what I did? Went to every social media site in existence, tagged that guy in his business, gave him five star reviews, and I never spent a dollar with that guy. But it was so ethical, and I'm gonna produce, that's producing referrals. You can call me now. I'll go find that locksmith. If you're local and you need a locksmith, I'm telling you to use that guy. And yesterday, microwave busted, two days ago. We called the appliance guy and he's like, look, it's electrical. It's going to be like a 200 to 300 repair. You're probably better off just buying a new one. That thing is like 15 years old or something. Jason: Those people are ethical. One thing I've seen is that sales people worry about only being able to win if they use manipulation tricks, tactics, and hard closes. So they end up struggling to close deals, make their quota or earn the kind of money that they want to make. If this sounds like your current situation or maybe you want to make more money in sales without feeling like you're selling, then my upcoming book called selling with authentic persuasion will help in it. I'm going to take you on a journey to transform from order taker to quota breaker. If you're ready to become an authentic persuader. Crush your goals and create success in your sales career. Then go to Jason cutter. com again. That's Jason cutter. com and pre order the book today. And it's interesting because two things, one is in my book that's coming out. I have a whole chapter on the power of no. And there's a story I tell in there that my parents had the same thing. They moved to kind of a more rural area, had a guy come out looking at the dishwasher cause it wasn't working. And the guy's like, I could fix it, but you need this 10 part. And my dad is really handy. He's like, buy that 10 part down at the store, fix it yourself. It'll take five minutes. My mom loves. Right. She would've happily paid if he said it needs this, she would've done it. But the fact that he didn't try to sell her, like she literally can't stop telling everybody, like, that's the person you need to use. And the other part of this that I've always tried to relay that to salespeople is if you're in a business and the goal is not to sell a hundred percent of the people you talk to, which means not everyone wins. There's some kind of qualification and there's some kind of like, it's a good fit or not parameter to whatever you're selling, then you tell people no, and you do it for the right reasons and you leverage that because they will be shocked. They went into the mechanic expecting to get charged a lot and potentially ripped off for something that's wrong with their car and the mechanic fixed it and sent them away without charging them. That's who you send referrals to. So for salespeople listening. Do that, tell the wrong people no, and then nurture the relationship, follow up with those people as well, like, they will love and appreciate the fact that you're, as I would say, the last honest mechanic in the world, and you did the right thing for them. Matt: And here's the thing too, when you think about what I said before about how clients refer one to three over lifetime, and partners, which are unpaid clients, right, people who don't pay you, are often your best referral sources. Think about the dishwasher guy, right? So. Your mom didn't pay him. Yeah. She's one of his best referral sources. Yeah. So oftentimes I see this happen where people don't realize that contacts, that's why in my book, I don't even reference customers and clients. I referenced the word contact. Jason: So, uh, you know, and I can totally see that. And again, it's just interesting when, like you said a few minutes ago with your whole blackjack strategy and why you were upsetting the whole table. It's when people focus on the money, they focus on the short term. I need to fix this lady's dishwasher because I got my own bills. I need to make a couple hundred dollars. I could charge them for this. Like who cares? Like what's what I do. And versus kind of longer term thinking and, or just. Doing the right thing and exceeding expectations. Like you said, I mean, everyone expects customer service. They have a certain level. You don't get referrals for meeting expectations, you know, kind of like the book raving fans. You get it for like crushing expectations, right? People don't say I posted this the other day. Oh, that was a mediocre dinner and a mediocre movie. Let me go tell all my friends, right? Matt: Yeah. I mean. Movies are a great example of how referrals work when you think about that, right? Yeah. So oftentimes you see the preview, right? So in sales, there's a preview, right? They're trying to understand who you are. That's marketing right there, right? That's marketing and it's the proposal process and that type of thing. Then you get into the movie, you watch the movie, and then when you walk out and stand in the hallway with a clipboard and ask everybody coming out of that movie theater what they thought, you're going to get lots of different answers. But oftentimes, they're very similar. So if the movie was too long, a lot of people are going to tell you it was too long, right? And so, that is not exceeding the expectations. You want people to feel like, Oh my gosh, that went so quick, but it was a two and a half, a three hour movie, which we know is very long, but we don't want them to think that way, right? Because the action kept going, or the dialogue kept going, or the plot kept going, right? And so, it's interesting because if we've seen too much in the previews, then the movie itself didn't overreact. It gave it all away. And when it comes to business, I think there's a lot of correlations to movies when you think about that. And we have to figure out what works for us. Remember that we don't need every client in the world. Then the power of know is very powerful. We don't need every client in the world. We need, you know, depending on the type of business where we could, maybe we only need 10 clients. It's 20 clients, 30 clients, right? Sometimes we need a hundred or 200, but we certainly don't need 10, 000, 20, 000. 7 billion. Yeah. 7 billion like Amazon or something, right? Jason: Yeah. Okay. So talking about referrals, long term relationship over deliver contacts, not just clients, not just a referral partners, just everybody not asking for referrals, not doing the hard sell on who do you know? Before I leave your living room, tell me the names of five people or else I'm going to live here forever. And then the other thing I know that you talk about and you help people on is, that's great, long term, do the right thing, but what about getting referrals now, short term? Matt: Yeah, it's tough because of the watering and the seed and stuff like that that you talked about, the farming aspect of it. So there are a couple ways that you can see a pet. Your sales. Jason: Now I know what I'm going to get you for Christmas. That's it for another episode of the sales experience podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you find yourself on iTunes, can you leave the show a rating and a review? It helps other salespeople and sales leaders find the show and please subscribe to the show and share episodes. You find valuable with anyone, you know, in sales help me on my mission of changing the way. Sales is done. And if you're ready to work together, go to Jason cutter. com. Again, that's Jason cutter. com to find out how I can help you or your company create scalable sales success. I will see you on the next sales experience podcast episode, and keep in mind that everything in life is sales and people will remember the experience you gave them.